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Return to Never Land
Round Table

With CHRISTOPHER CHASE SHARON MORRILL MYKE SUTHERLAND

Sally Thomson of Unreel Movie Magazine and www.unreelmovies.co.uk had the pleasure to attend the Round Table Press Conference of Return To Never Land and was able to discuss this delightful film at some length with the producer Christopher Chase, Sharon Morrill, the executive in charge of production and Myke Sutherland, the senior animator of Jane

Question: I understand you always intended a theatrical release. You must be overjoyed with the success in the US?

Christopher Chase: Completely. I mean, it's - it's thrilling. You know, you work on these movies for three or four years, and you have no idea when it leaves the little cocoon, you know, how people are going to react. And so to have people just really enjoy it is just a thrill.

Question: Does that mean it's already in profit on the strength of the US release? It's up to like $45m now and it's in the top ten.

Christopher Chase: You know, I hope so. I never quite completely understand studio economics. I'm never quite sure if it's - you know, when to say yeah, we're there. But I believe it's doing really well.

Question: With it being based in England. I should imagine you will have success over here, especially with it being Easter and us mums always have to look forward to doing something with the children. In terms of timing, it's spot on. But I think the Englishness of it is quite charming. I don't know if you feel that as well, if that's slightly different to what you've done before, because it has quite an English side to it.

Christopher Chase: You know, the lady who runs - is our contact at the Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital, which is the group that owns the copyright of Sir James Barrie's book. And she was saying to me, she was saying, she loved it, loved the movie and we're so happy. And I was really pleased that she loved the movie. She goes, do you know Peter has an American accent. I thought, I never thought about that before. I hadn't really - And she was like, oh, okay. We have a whole audience over here who's going to have a very different ear.

Question: It's almost like Peter and the Lost Boys were all American, or seemed to be. Almost like a conscious difference between the English, stuck in the war, and saved, and yet the Americans are Never Land

Sharon Morrill: No, definitely true.

Question: And so the characters that were introduced this time are Jane, primarily, Jane.

Sharon Morrill: Jane and Danny, and older Wendy. And then their father - you know, Wendy's husband, Jane's father. Those are the new characters.

Question: How did you get [Harriet Owen] on board?

Sharon Morrill: When we started with her, she was only 12. And she was around Jane's age. We - you can't - finding very good talented children actors are really one of our greatest struggles. We went - I can't tell you the casting calls we went through, and we actually had several picks. It was quite a struggle, but she just emerged as the best, and she was really good. And, given the fact that she's from London and we did our production in Los Angeles, it was phone patched in.

Christopher Chase: We do what we call an ISDN patch. So she was in a studio here; we're in a studio in Los Angeles. She's doing real time recording, and then we're giving her direction back in real time. You know, it's quite amazing.

Sharon Morrill: That's - I mean, that's never the way we like to do - we usually like to come here and do it. But for whatever reason, we never got a chance to do that. So she did an amazing job under the circumstances.

Christopher Chase: She was great, just great .

Question: I was also interested to see the animation, which was done in Australia, production was based in LA - the score was recorded in London - quite international.

Sharon Morrill: And actually about a third of the movie was also animated in Canada - Wasn't it about a third?

Christopher Chase: A little less than .....

Question: So how do you co-ordinate all these sort of two or three continents, different territories?

Christopher Chase: Ultimately, that's what you do. You have - with the producers and the - your staff, you work - so it really is exhausting, you've got to make sure that all those people are connected.

Question: And the timings, world timings, just to get everybody -

Christopher Chase: It's a lot of work.

Sharon Morrill: All our movies are done like that. We have a wholly owned studio in Australia and a wholly owned studio in Japan. So all of our movies are animated overseas. And so we've got systems in place.

Myke Sutherland: And it’s split up. They do pre-production in America and then send it to us. We take over the drawing side and all that stuff, send it back, and they wrap it up in the post-production. It's not like there are all these sending, well there kind of are with some things. But as a nutshell, it kind of feels like that.

Question: Did you base Jane on anyone you knew at all?

Myke Sutherland: Well, no, not particularly. There's a whole mixture of people designing her.

Sharon Morrill: We have character designers that actually come up with character designs, and they do several different ones, and then they'll show them to me, and then we'll say, this, this. We actually did the research on what the hairstyles were during that time.

Question: Yes, I thought that was quite modern actually - I didn't realise that was a 40s cut.

Sharon Morrill: That was a very popular cut during the War in London. It was a big deal to us because me and - this credit executive, we just loved the haircut and the clothes and all that, so the haircut became this big deal. Yeah, so, and even Wendy's hair was kind of based on some, you know, research we did. And then it comes to Myke, and Myke makes the character come alive.

Myke Sutherland: I've got a whole team of Jane animators. People supervise the characters who work very closely, and then finally finalise the character design And it's her job to teach the rest of the team, about 12 of us, how to draw this character. And it's up to us to try and draw as one person, so you hopefully can't recognise the differences in the scenes.

Question: Oh I did, I spotted .... [laughter] Who's your favourite character in the film?

All: Jane.

Myke Sutherland: I have to see the movie again to see the other characters.

Question: I suppose she must be part of your life after four years.

Myke Sutherland: Well, I mean, we don't work on it for four years, because the pre-production, post-production. But about a year, year and a half. But - you're very interested to see how it all comes together, and at the end you finally see all the stuff you tried - 'cos you're always learning - it's a learning curve - see if it came out all right, and worked. And I was stunned. And that's just from my perspective.

Question: Your favourite?

Christopher Chase: Oh for me it's Hook. The characters big, evil and bombastic, and he's just so fun. You know, all the stuff you wish you could do in life, you know.

Question: And get away with it.

Question: I've heard that being said about you, you know, behind the scenes.

Christopher Chase: Exactly, yes indeed. The other one I really have to say is - I thought Tinker Bell was animated really quite brilliantly in this piece. They just did a great - great job on making her emotional and just fun.

Question: Was she slimmer this time round?

Sharon Morrill: You know, that's interesting you say that. She - we actually looked at the old models, 'cos we were looking for - you know, she seemed so - her legs looked so thick. And we looked at the old models and they were absolutely like that. It was - so she might be a little bit, but not much.

Question: Wasn’t she modelled on Monroe?

Christopher Chase: Barbara Carey, who was the original live action model for her. I mean, she was definitely a cheeky pixie in the first movie, I mean she's definitely, she’s great.

Question: Do you have a favourite?

Sharon Morrill: Well, I like Tinker Bell, but I probably like Wendy just because I think she's a perfect mum.

Question: Oh, isn't she? . These stories she tells – I get so tired. It’s a glass of wine, and oh read it yourself. Laughter

Christopher Chase: The thing about Wendy is that she is almost bordering on the sane in some ways, but she's not, she's a really mad character because she’s full of life and belief and trust and, love really.

Sharon Morrill: She just embodies the theme of the movie, which is why I like her.

Question: I was interested to see her meeting with Pan compared to the original book where it quite a sad moment. And yet you sort of reinterpret it to make it quite uplifting.

Christopher Chase: I think its our favourite moment in the movie, it's because as adults - it's when the movie kind of comes all the way around, and you get to go - oh the magic's not gone. It's not gone forever. And even as an adult - I was, you know, really worried at one point - I thought, oh it can't be a dream. First of all, that would just be too awful. And it can't be a case where only Jane gets to see Peter. So the idea that they come together is just great.

Question: It was great, 'cos you teased us all the way through that scene .... she's not quite .... oh she does. I was looking - your background's predominantly video products, and then this is a theatrical one. Is it a different process or do you find the same skills that you have - using for the last few years?

Sharon Morrill: We approach all our movies pretty much the same, which is you really try to make our movies in a theatrical style. So we do pitch our filmmakers into thinking that, as a theatrical, as a big movie. And then it's really kind of a distribution issue as to when do they need certain movies; certain titles lend themselves better to - theatrical release versus the DVP. But fundamentally, they're made the same.

Christopher Chase: It's really great for the film makers because, you know, you get this great encouragement and support to think big and reach, you know, reach for the big movie. And then, you know, it’s a studio decision and you can’t control that so it's nice, it's the best world.

Question: It was interesting seeing the CGI and the traditional animation. It seemed that you were very much constantly trying to take on the original movie, obviously with the pre-sequence at the beginning, which was lovely in the clouds. But also in the style of the animation. It was almost that Jane was slightly different - her eyes were slightly different, the characters around her. Was that very conscious that she was something more contemporary and everyone else around her was sort of in the style of this…?

Christopher Chase: Do you know, it's such a fine line you walk, because we all like the original so much. But we have the modern audience, and I think now you can speak to how you feel as an artist about it, but I think now it's really great because we have so many tools. We have digital tools, we have traditional - traditional skill sets, and you can start to bring them together and find out what you want to do consciously. And I think this movie very much wanted consciously to be a classic Disney. And we used, you know, things like Jolly Rogers as 3D, it's a 3D element, which allows you to move the camera very dynamically. But it - it gives you a choice - and we tried to match it, pull it in, so you feel a sense of sort of seamless, traditional, maybe a little old-fashioned, but not too much.

Question: I liked - the modern touch I liked was when the galleon - that wham as it arrived over the house. I thought that was a bit like the dinosaur's foot in Jurassic Park - bang! It was that shock that made you jolt, which will appeal to children today. There's something in there that's quite modern.

Myke Sutherland: It was pretty dramatic.

Question: I loved that, I thought it was superb.

Myke Sutherland: The other thing is that Jane in her design, we had an opportunity to - of course the other characters are all in the movie and we've already seen them, we had an opportunity to bring something a bit modern, and to combine them - not so she's so different that she stands out but just pump a bit of 2000 into her.

Question: So with prequels, sequels. Are we having Wendy the grandma? Laughter

Christopher Chase: Maybe …..

Sharon Morrill: She’ll be the perfect grandma.

Question: How about the music, the songs? There was the song about fairy dust and trust.

Christopher Chase: Jonatha Brook, yeah.

Sharon Morrill: That song is just the heart and soul of the movie.

Christopher Chase: The song makes her cry every time.

Sharon Morrill: Four years later, and I still like it.

Christopher Chase: It used to crack us up because it's like how many times, Sharon, have you heard that song and she still cries?

Sharon Morrill: When we were at the recordings of the score here in Abbey Road. I mean, we were a mess. We - I mean, we'd been working on it for so long, and we hear the score to it - and we're like …..

Christopher Chase: We had this fantastic composer, Joel Healey, who you know, there we were at Abbey Road with a 90 piece orchestra, and it had these themes and these emotional moments like - the moment at the very end of the movie where Wendy sees Peter. And he - he just with this violin, and he just wove these themes together, and all of a sudden - And then wove in Second Star of The Right from the original movie, and, oh my God, we were all - a mess.

Sharon Morrill: The great thing about Joel is that he was able to combine a very emotional score with the whimsy that Never Land needed, with a - and all that, while making it feel big. He made the movie feel really big and theatrical. So he was able to combine those three elements, which I thought was pretty -

Christopher Chase: Versatile.

Sharon Morrill: Yeah. Jonatha was fantastic. She was kind of our find. The song actually is getting a lot of airplay in the United States now. We wanted to find a voice for Jane, a musical voice for Jane and what was going on inside of Jane. Um - and I think she did that incredibly successfully. And her version of Second Star to the Right, which opens the movie, is also [emotional]. But then we also went with a band called They Might Be Giants, which is a very contemporary, hip - for the Lost Boys, 'cos we wanted to give it - and it works, you know, 'cos Jonatha has a very contemporary voice, and then They Might be Giants is very contemporary. So it actually works.

Christopher Chase: We did a lot of mixing this time too in the sense that we mixed the styles. Her voice is the voice over where she sings, and the characters are in a dramatic moment. The Lost Boys song, they're clearly in the song, singing the song. Peter and the boys are on this adventure. So - we kind of did all those bits. You know, you never know until you've done it if it's all going to blend, and it did.

Question: So do you all spend a lot of time playing, like in the office, whilst you were working on this, full of play?

Myke Sutherland: [Animators] are renowned for being big kids. He’s been hassling me because I’ve been looking at toyshops – Hamleys and stuff.

Christopher Chase: When we arrived here what is the first thing he wants to do. We have to run over to Hamleys and check out the toys.

Sharon Morrill: It's really cute 'cos the animators and filmmakers are all very much little boys. The director, when we went to Sydney, there's a really neat puppet store there, and he - we immediately wanted to go to the puppet store. Yeah, it's fun, and also, you know a movie's working when we are still crying. You know - well crying - the good way. Laughter

Sharon Morrill: No, it was fun. I mean, I remember at one point, we were coming into production and we normally don't do this, but we did a brainstorming session in Sydney with the animators, about how to make this certain sequence be funnier. So we're just sitting there talking ‘oh no they can do this, they can do this’. And one of the biggest laughs actually came out of that session, you know.

Myke Sutherland: People really got into that. Everyone wants to have a creative input.

Christopher Chase: And we have these incredibly creative people in all the studios. I mean, you're just - sometimes it shocks you; even though you work with them every day. All of a sudden you become aware that once again they're all incredibly creative.

Question: So when are you going to come down from this high and have to go back to your real job again? Laughter

Christopher Chase: Because we're working on now is good as well, and the one after that is looking terrific, so -

Question: Are we allowed to know what you're working on?

Sharon Morrill: They're working on Jungle Book Two right now.

Question: Are you involved in that again?

Sharon Morrill: Yes, as a matter of fact we just put Chris on as a producer, yes. I’m involved in all the movies, but yes he is.

Question: Because you were involved in Tarzan?

Christopher Chase: Yes, yes. I was one of the producers on Tarzan.

Question: So is that quite similar? Is it the same - something about the jungle that you find particularly appealing?

Christopher Chase: Do you know, it is - it is. It's exactly - it's kind of the same process across the board. I mean, in the sense of Tarzan, you had the original source material, and here you have James Barry's original source material. And you know, in Jungle Book, you have what Walt did initially. And the picture - that comes from Rudyard Kipling. So there's really a sense of - what do you take and how do you move it forward, and what story are you trying to tell.

Question: Do we know what the story is? Is it another story?

Sharon Morrill: I can't ...........

Christopher Chase: It's a secret ........ No, sorry .......... Laughter and All talk at once

Sharon Morrill: We’ve got a really adorable female character. We've got a good cast on that one. We've got John Goodman playing Baloo. And he sings a couple of songs, and then we've got Mowgli is Haley Joel Osmond. And they've got a really great chemistry together.

Question: So is there a chance we may see that on the big screen, or has that decision not been made yet?

Sharon Morrill: That's been made, it's going out on the big screen, yeah.

Question: This year in Britain?

Sharon Morrill: Next year. Yeah.

Question: You touched on it using the CGI and the traditional animation. And I'm intrigued, because the only two things I could kind of spot and one I've read about, was the fairy dust, which I hadn't realised the CGI had written the production notes. And obviously this amazing ship. What were the other elements that we didn't notice? The totem pole?

Myke Sutherland: I can't even tell myself, because this is the first time for our studio that we've tried computer animation for a character. Tinker Bell, when she was small, we did her on the computer. And - I'd forgotten about that - and it's obviously in the movie, but I hadn't even noticed that.

Question: Which is a compliment.

Myke Sutherland: Yeah. Which is great. And I think it's more of a test for our studio to see if there's ever a time we do need to do computer character animation, we can cope with that, we can do that.

Christopher Chase: And I think at one point there's a door in the nursery that swings - and it goes right in perspective, and so they just make a 3D element of it. You can't tell.

Question: No, it’s just another paintbrush for you in a way isn’t it?

Christopher Chase: Exactly.

Myke Sutherland: There are a lot of little things like doors and vehicles. They're just so seamless these days.

Question: Slightly off the wall question. This year you got the animated Oscar for the first time. Two things, one it's great it being recognised as an art form in itself, or is it just being ghettoised, it'll never win Best Movie?

Christopher Chase: You know, I just read an article where they were having this big discussion about exactly that. Do you know, I just have to take as it's recognition. It's the fact that people are, you know - I think it's all good. I think it's all good. It just brings those movies forward and lets people talk about them a bit, pay attention to them, and maybe broaden it so that people who wouldn't normally go and see animation go, hey, well if it's getting this attention, it must be worth my time. And you get more people in the door. So I'm going to take the Pollyanna theory and just say that it's a good thing.

Question: Do you agree?

Sharon Morrill: Yeah, I do actually.

Myke Sutherland: Well, I think there's a lot more chance for exposure these days, so that's what's exciting to me. And there's a lot more emphasis on the quality factor, 'cos we're making great movies now, not just good movies.

Question: It’s amazing how many go to see animated films now - I went to see - have you heard of Watership Down? I saw that on my honeymoon - [laughter] And now it's - and people frowned at us, and said what are you doing on your honeymoon going to see Watership Down. And it's amazing how it's changing so much that people are quire happy to go to see an animated film without having to take a little person with them. Because that used to be the deal that the only times that these would be shown would be if you went along with your children. So I think that's why that's so important. That's why - you know - I actually did take my daughter to see Mulan and I sat there and I had - my eyes were welling up with tears, similar what you were saying. And I had - it's a drawing, Sally, it's a drawing. When was a little girl, I desperately wanted to be an animator. My background is art. And I just love it. I just love the sheer possibility of it all, and all these wonderful characters. Today’s film was very special. As I say, you know, you look at these beautiful characters and they bring a love.

Sharon Morrill: They bring them alive.

Question: Yes. And that's why you have done so well, because today, you know, when Wendy saw Pan, I could feel my eyes prickly. And as you said, you know, it's - it was very, very special, 'cos it's not nice to know that there isn't Father Christmas and there isn't a Tooth Fairy. It's quite nice to know that there might be Peter Pan and Tinker Bell.

Question: And does the fact that it is a sequel make it that easier, because you're dealing people of our ages that have grown up with movies, that have such fond memories anyway?

Sharon Morrill: I think it's easier in that - because of that. I think it's easier because the characters are already loved and established. The world is already established, so a lot of that work has been done for us. What makes it more difficult is to try to tell a story that's different enough.

Christopher Chase: You've got to still recognise the people you know.

Sharon Morrill: That's kind of the line we always walk.